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  Tuning Springers
« on: January 24, 2008, 13:24:44 PM » by SoundLab
Hi again. second topic Grin lol
I also have a Webley Excel. It is 16 years old and I'm starting to feel like tuning it. I searched on it on the web and it seems it is only 6 Ft/Lbs but I'm not sure about it, as when shooting at a 1.5mm steel plate, the pellet left a larger dent than a pellet fired from a Weihrauch HW90 (both rifles are cal.22). Does anyone know how to tune a Webley Excel and tell me about the ideal power for the rifle to remain accurate?
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 13:57:35 PM » by RB
This gun would be sub- 12ft/lbs as likely it is the same as for the British market. Therefore expect from 10-11 ft/lbs. If the spring is of good quality it should still be hovering around this level or maybe a little less.

If not mistaken, Webley had an "export" version of this, which was around 15 ft/lbs so this would be your target.

Power is not just a function of the spring so putting in a "monster" may be counterproductive in terms of accuracy AND sometimes result in less power output, surprisingly.

I'm not sure where I'd recommend you get the spring from, but it is certainly easy to use alternatives as long as the quality of the spring is very good. Springs can be cut to size, ends flattened and ground to a taper, as per factory finish - no big deal, with a grinder - to flatten one would heat to red and just push.

On such a gun with a medium sized cylinder I would have enough coils in it such that the spring just-about does not get coilbound (fully compressed solid, coil-on-coil) when the rifle is cocked. Proper measurement will ensure you get to this setting without trial and error.

This should give you useful power and if too much just cut a couple of coils until you are where you want to be, sometimes (as above) you may find that the power goes UP as you do this but you need a chrono to be able to test.

RB
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 15:31:21 PM » by SoundLab
Thanks for your suggestion. I'll see from where i can get a new spring. That's a good beginning.
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 16:21:39 PM » by RB
One thing - never ever put any oil or lube in front of the piston, i.e. through the transfer port. This can seriously damage the gun. One lubes the spring with heavy grease, this gets transferred to the cylinder walls, behind the piston, and that will be all the lube the piston needs.

Your best bet in the quest for a spring is first:

Cock the gun with the action out of the stock and check in what state of compression the spring is. Normally there would be space between the coils, but check this with the cocking lever ALL THE WAY BACK as the spring needs the extra space for the movement required to engage the trigger.

Not easy, but try to estimate visually or with some made up feeler tool (probably normal feeler gauge won't work) the AVERAGE gap between the coils. This so you can eventually calculate how many extra coils you may be able to fit in. This is all very approximate of course. You may also prefer to try and measure the total available space once the gun is in pieces, just re-assemble without spring and measure the available space, or set the pieces out on your bench out of the cylinder but in the respective positions, etc, anyway you get the picture. The latter will be far more accurate, but in any case if you put in too many coils the gun will simply not cock and you will then know that you have to reduce the number.

Then, knowing the thickness of the spring wire that you are buying, you will know where to cut, (the number of coils) or at least how many coils are needed as a minimum if buying a replacement that was not originally for the Excel, as comparing the old compressed spring with the new by simple extended length is a non-starter. The outside diameter and also wire thickness will generally need to be the same as otherwise the spring will not fit on the guide. Thankfully a lot of dimensions are common across many guns.

If the gun was twangy in operation you may also consider having a new, tighter rear spring guide made up, maybe in metal if the old one is plastic.

Aside, sorry I do not know your competence, but be very careful removing the spring as it may be under a fair bit of compression even when the gun is not cocked. You may need some form of simple made-up fitment to help with this job or maybe even a spring compressor of sorts, not very familiar with the Excel so you'll have to figure it out yourself. Just work safely and don't take shortcuts, at the very least the cylinder should be properly secured in a padded vice (and don't squash it either!!!)

RB
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The Bright Side: "Sir! We're surrounded!" - "Excellent! We can shoot in any direction!"

  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2008, 18:29:08 PM » by SoundLab
That will surely help  Smiley Thanks
Infact I don't know exactly how to do the things you told me on my Excel but will surely try something, dw.
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2008, 19:38:19 PM » by RB
There are plenty of guys around here who will be able to show you how things are done, visit the range and get talking. Similarly if you search on the internet you will surely find lots of info as to how to disassemble your particular rifle.

RB
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The Bright Side: "Sir! We're surrounded!" - "Excellent! We can shoot in any direction!"

  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2008, 20:21:57 PM » by SoundLab
What do you think is best? a Theoben Gas Ram or an OX Spring for the Excel?
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2008, 20:58:47 PM » by dvd
They're both OK but they feel different when you shoot the airgun.
Assuming that everything is nice and  tight as it should be;
The ram is quicker in recoil, whereas the spring is just a fraction slower. There is no twisting effect as the spring expands and no vibrations from ill-fitting and un-guided springs.
They'll both be nearly the same for power.
Their shooting characteristics will be different.
Rams do not suffer from a "set"  like a spring does, if left cocked for a long period of time.
They are usually more expensive to replace than a spring.
I suggest you try both if you can to see what they are really like. Some people do not like rams, others do.
Do not expect miracles by fitting rams or super springs,if the gun is not designed for that sort of thing from the start. Wink
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2008, 21:03:27 PM » by SoundLab
The gun is a Webley Excel. What do you think is the maximum power for the Excel to remain accurate?
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2008, 21:05:39 PM » by magnum
I also have a Webley Excel in 22 calibre.

The Excel was rated about 11fpe and mine is just about there.

No harm in having fun tuning it but be aware that it was Webley's bottom rung rifle for power, wooden stock etc. For those who wanted something better Webley used to offer at same period the Vulcan. Also a break-barrel springer but full power (12fpe British maximum) and was a more substantial rifle with better wood. It also was available in export (or British FAC) version in 15fpe. They also had a break-barrel with massive power but I forgot it's name.  Undecided
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2008, 21:06:43 PM » by SoundLab
Is it the Patriot?
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2008, 21:10:55 PM » by magnum
Is it the Patriot?

Spot on there!  Wink

The Webley Patriot was available also in .25 calibre and if I recall could reach some 40fpe. Not bad for a break-barrel. There should be some around in Malta as Franwin had imported a few. Then came PCP's and the landscape changed forever.  Cool
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2008, 21:23:55 PM » by SoundLab
The Excel really is my father's, ... but am buying a PCP as my first airgun. That's because I wanted to ask about the CO2 tank... (niffranka naqa ux)
I don't even have a job at hand but willing to work in summer. The fact that I don't have a job (and obviously money Grin) does not permit me to buy an airgun like the S410... My budget is around LM 500 to 550. At first I wanted to buy the Diana 48 but then after days thinking I decided to buy something much better, considering the fact that for now it will be my only airgun. I love power in airguns and went for a PCP and my budget can't exceed the FX price range. I know they are very good airguns and so I decided to be unique... ie. buying the storm  Grin
But the PCP on its own does not fire..... I need a scuba tank and a scope. The scuba tank will cost me around LM 125 and for now I will go for a Bushnell 8-32X63 scope from ebay costing me LM 50. That's the whole story  Wink Grin

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« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 22:48:07 PM by MSS Forum Admin »
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2008, 21:32:21 PM » by magnum
The Excel really is my father's, ... but am buying a PCP as my first airgun. That's because I wanted to ask about the CO2 tank... (niffranka naqa ux)

Well that makes me old enough to be your father then.  Grin

Anyway it nice to see such enthusiasm for airguns and shooting in you. I'm sure you will have lots of satisfaction from the sport and it may even lead you to arms proper which you can legally obtain when you are 18. Airguns are often the natural road to firearms target shooting. But one step at a time.

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« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 22:48:51 PM by MSS Forum Admin »
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  Re: Tuning Springers
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2008, 21:34:41 PM » by SoundLab
Do you compete in firearms competitions or have a firearm?
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 (Read 18067 times) [1] 2 3 4
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