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  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2013, 20:01:26 PM » by Vincent
LCD has a point.
A police siderarm and manual of arms is generally for rapid use in unexpected scenarios.
Army role for a side arm is generally different; Its out of the holster when main weapon is down or outta ammo; Not much need for DA triggers etc.

Maybe I am missing something.
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  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2013, 20:25:30 PM » by EURODOG
LCD has a point.
A police siderarm and manual of arms is generally for rapid use in unexpected scenarios.
Army role for a side arm is generally different; Its out of the holster when main weapon is down or outta ammo; Not much need for DA triggers etc.

Maybe I am missing something.

As we all know the Glock was originally designed as a military pistol foremost, and found it's niche in US law enforcement. They are all that LCD mentioned , however my opinion is that they are are extremely easy to train personnel on and they shoot well (although personally the all shoot a little left hand low for me). I first saw them at the Police PAA shoot at Bisley many years ago, a Met Police team had them, threw me at first, they where the first series, green colour and plastic? Everyone agreed  'they would never catch on'....

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'That's funny he's never done that before!'

  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2013, 21:52:59 PM » by K38


Maybe I am missing something.
[/quote]

Glocks seem to have this thing:: You either love em or hate em..

The cold facts are :They are very accurate out of the box.. they weigh nothing..There reliability is second to none..They will shoot thousands upon thousands of round without breaking .They are very simple to use..Small hands, large hands,left,right hand is no problem..Ohh and the most important thing its the cheapest pistol on the list...

Now to your point Vincent..The British army was/is very conservative when it comes to pistol training so much so that Tommy is only allowed to Carry his Browning with an empty chamber so racking the slide will take an eternity when that fuzzy Wussy is trying to kill him with a mango..The risk of accidental discharges with one up the spout all the time is just fare to risky..

Now they have the Glock with its so called safe action, reading from this article it seems that they are confident enough to now Carry the Glock with one up the spout for a faster engagement thus saving the mango ..Time will tell unless they invest many more hours in training they will go back to Carry with an empty chamber..

The reason nobody thought they would not catch on is they were way ahead of every other design and beat everything that was around at the time ..When S&W actually copy your pistol 99% you know you have something special..
The other big advantage the Glock had with police forces was they were universally looking to replace there S&W mod 10s and upgrade to a high cap pistol and the Glock is the smoothest of transfers requiring the minimum of retraining and did I forget to say,,,, also the cheapest..
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  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2013, 08:40:31 AM » by Vincent
Hmmm ......a ready to go pistol for an Army ?
Smells of changing codes of conduct and/or official misinformation.

Having said that, Glocks are practical enough and will do the job welll.
And naturally, who can deny the plus from logistic commonality between allies ?
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  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2013, 08:59:51 AM » by Quantumshot

Having said that, Glocks are practical enough and will do the job welll.
And naturally, who can deny the plus from logistic commonality between allies ?

But with that reasoning then every army should only have AKs, which is not the case !
Worst still with the very manufacturer Izhmash having dumped and stopped the production of the weapon to start producing a different platform.

Lets admit it that many a times when it comes to contracts of this nature what counts is not what the field soldier wants but what the top brass manage to negotiate.




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Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2013, 14:00:09 PM » by EURODOG


Maybe I am missing something.

Glocks seem to have this thing:: You either love em or hate em..

The cold facts are :They are very accurate out of the box.. they weigh nothing..There reliability is second to none..They will shoot thousands upon thousands of round without breaking .They are very simple to use..Small hands, large hands,left,right hand is no problem..Ohh and the most important thing its the cheapest pistol on the list...

Now to your point Vincent..The British army was/is very conservative when it comes to pistol training so much so that Tommy is only allowed to Carry his Browning with an empty chamber so racking the slide will take an eternity when that fuzzy Wussy is trying to kill him with a mango..The risk of accidental discharges with one up the spout all the time is just fare to risky..

Now they have the Glock with its so called safe action, reading from this article it seems that they are confident enough to now Carry the Glock with one up the spout for a faster engagement thus saving the mango ..Time will tell unless they invest many more hours in training they will go back to Carry with an empty chamber..

The reason nobody thought they would not catch on is they were way ahead of every other design and beat everything that was around at the time ..When S&W actually copy your pistol 99% you know you have something special..
The other big advantage the Glock had with police forces was they were universally looking to replace there S&W mod 10s and upgrade to a high cap pistol and the Glock is the smoothest of transfers requiring the minimum of retraining and did I forget to say,,,, also the cheapest..

[/quote]

Just a couple of points, first of all you are right, together all out allies the policy for the British Army is to carry with an empty chamber, and this will not change.
Law enforcement of reasons which have been mentioned have different priorities, as a police officers pimery firearm. I was training in Nashville in the early 90's when the Metro Department went over to the Glock from S&W revolvers and it was a little harder for veteran officers to transition onto the Glock. It's a good rugged workhorse not overly more accurate that anything else, and at under £290 a unit the Army should do well with them....................

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'That's funny he's never done that before!'

  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2013, 15:14:04 PM » by kelinu
I have this weakness of going after the better-looking stuff.  Wink


I prefer it when the better looking stuff comes after me!!

JcM
Dream on mate....dream on!  Grin
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“Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer”
― Sun Tzu

  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2013, 09:01:19 AM » by jcm2710
I have this weakness of going after the better-looking stuff.  Wink


I prefer it when the better looking stuff comes after me!!

JcM
Dream on mate....dream on!  Grin


 Grin Grin


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It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark.

  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2013, 10:39:22 AM » by Vincent
....hmmmmm again.
Its likely that re. glock adoption, the british just went with the current; And thats not necessarily bad.

The issue of "one up the spout readiness" military suitability remains a bit foggy.

Maybe military scenario expectations have changed considerably:
---More part domestic part interventional conflicts are being seen as the future of most military confrontations.

This would indicate that the conventional idea of the pistol being either a mere dress appendage, or to be readied just before battle and holstered is being replaced by " we can be rumbled in our sleep".

Hey, maybe military intelligence is truly an oxymoron and nobody ever even thought about this. Very unlikely.

At the end of the day, Glocks are good pistols, they are cheap, our potential allies have them, so why not us.
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  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2013, 13:51:57 PM » by K38
Looks like  the British army did not conduct  an evaluation test on several different makes of pistol ,otherwise they would have made mention of that fact when the adoption of the Glock was announced .It was pretty much a no brainer that the Glock is the proffered choice..
Euro Dog we are in agreement :: There is a world of difference between Police and Military use..The British army is developing along the lines of more specialized units not necessarily SAS level, but with more training for specific tasks such as house/ compound clearing then they will get the extra training and carry the pistol with a round chambered..The rest as you say empty chamber..
Regarding the Glock as the perfect police pistol I have reservations :::As you Know Eurodog police officers are shot with there own pistols and the Glock "safe action" only relates to drop testing and the long trigger pull puts it on a level with revolvers..Only with the development of :Retention Holsters"with sophisticated locking systems (Malta take note)  makes the Glock Safe to Carry exposed..The danger that an officer faces when he has his pistol drawn and ends up rolling around on the ground with a bad guy..The 60 year old High Power would still be my choice in that scenario..Reason?Huh?? and I do not know why Glock has not used it..The HP has this very simple safety that if required you hit the mag release the mag drops and the pistol will not fire..With the Glock you will literally have to fight for your life..Even the 1911 with its thumb safety is better and the best..

The Browning Hi power:: This pistol designed by John M Browning has stood the test of time and served the British Army and many others around the world for an incredible length of time .It is interesting to note that the original design was for a single stack magazine and that the design was revised by FN to a high capacity mag after Browning's passing..This one change alone guaranteed its longevity..
Looking at the two pistols side by side provides an excellent window on pistol development over the past 60 years..From all steel with a considerable amount of machining and individual hand fitting to the modern day injection moulded plastic combined with steel , automated machine production, meteorological development and with all the parts 100% interchangeable .. From a usage of 4000 rounds it is now increased 10 fold plus..

Ohh and as we are on the subject of revealing our female hunting techniques :::: I only chase pretty girls, but nowadays most of them can out run me !!!!!!!
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  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2013, 20:38:09 PM » by xanthus
I have to confess that for some reason I just cannot stand the sight of a 'GLOCK Pistol' Its' reliable, good etc.. but I just cant' stand the sight of it.
Are there any guns that you just do not stand, or its just me ?? Undecided
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  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2013, 21:23:49 PM » by K38
I have to confess that for some reason I just cannot stand the sight of a 'GLOCK Pistol' Its' reliable, good etc.. but I just cant' stand the sight of it.
Are there any guns that you just do not stand, or its just me ?? Undecided

I know what you mean xanthus had a girlfriend like that once...

Like I said Glocks, you love em or hate em..Most of the guns I hate are the ones that wont hit the middle of the target so that's a long list..
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  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2013, 21:29:16 PM » by RB
Glocks are tools, to me. Can't say good or bad, but no more appealing than a cordless drill. They work, they are used, then they are put back in the box, and that's it. Nothing wrong with that of course but I don't get emotionally attached to any spanner or screwdriver.

Actually I also think the grip angle is weird and if I ever had to shoot a Glock instinctively in a panic situation I think everyone would be safe except perhaps the pigeons in the sky.

RB
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The Bright Side: "Sir! We're surrounded!" - "Excellent! We can shoot in any direction!"

  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #58 on: January 20, 2013, 21:52:05 PM » by K38
Glocks are tools, to me. Can't say good or bad, but no more appealing than a cordless drill. They work, they are used, then they are put back in the box, and that's it. Nothing wrong with that of course but I don't get emotionally attached to any spanner or screwdriver.

Actually I also think the grip angle is weird and if I ever had to shoot a Glock instinctively in a panic situation I think everyone would be safe except perhaps the pigeons in the sky.

RB
That all sounds pretty normal RB..Next time you get emotionally attached to an inanimate object be sure to share it with us all...


Admin Watch this one...
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  Re: GLOCK REPLACES BROWNING AFTER 50 YEARS..
« Reply #59 on: January 20, 2013, 21:58:16 PM » by S&W in .38
I do however get emotionally attached to this one K38.  Smiley

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-- Mervyn Borg

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